John Howard

Sep 29, 08 - 1:02 PM

The Otter and Tips

I for one won’t give any more tips at the Otter and the Bumble Bee. That policy of sharing the tips between everyone is ridiculous.
We give tips to the person serving us because they give a good service and put up with all the main problems. If I wanted to give a tip to someone else in the pub for good service, I would, I don’t want the Otter dictating where my tip should go. Some of these kids are only on a pittance an hour and rely on the tips to get them through college week to week.

I understand it is based on hours worked, so the staff on the front line and are part time on minimum wage ends up getting around £2-£3 per week and the full time staff some on £10-£15 per hour gets a lot more.
I also understand the staff themselves voted this in which is a bit unfair way of doing it as the front line part time staff are totally out voted by the majority of the full time backroom staff, like cleaners, kitchen staff etc who all benefit. They don’t get the abuse and fall out and the pressure of running big areas on their own.

If they want tips they need to work the floor and take some of the hassle and aggravation.
Please someone let me know when this policy goes back to where it should by letting the customer decide who gets the tips!!!!!!

John Smith

Nov 6th, 2008 - 4:10 PM

Re: The Otter and Tips

The tip sharing at The Otter is a fairer way of splitting the tips. After the introduction of the National Minimum Wage the policy of 'topping' up wages with tips had become less important as the Government has ensured that all workers are paid a minimum and fair wage.

As you stated with this way the kitchen staff, cleaners, bar and food runners now receive a share of the tips. Afterall without all these parts of the pub team the waiter/waitress would have no reason to have a job and indeed the pub wouldn't be open. Yes they provide you with good service, but the kitchen provides you with your food, the bar provides you with the drinks and the cleaners ensure you have a clean and pleasent environment to enjoy all these things so why not split the tips amongst the pubs staff??

I do not believe that anyone be they full or part time in any pub would be paid £10 - £15 a hour and if someone was then they would be few and far between. The highest rate of pay I have seen offered in a pub seeking new employees has never been more than £6/h with the kitchen staff generally getting a little more as the job involves a little more skill and knowledge ignoring the fact of working in a hot environment.

So Mr Howard I hope my response to your comments has given you a different light in which to view The Otter and any business that has a similar tip policy. I for one will continue to eat and drink at the Otter as I find it a pleasent place to come and relax after work.

John Howard

Nov 7th, 2008 - 12:40 PM

Re: The Otter and Tips

I see where you’re coming from and I do understand John, but the cleaners and kitchen staff are not on the front line and don’t get the stress, abuse and in the case of the Bumble Bee don’t get charged out of their pay if the customers walk out without paying.
Some of the these front line staff have to cover two sections at a time, taking orders and delivering the meals, drinks and they are supposed to watch that nobody walks out without paying as well or they get the blame. No other member of staff gets this much stress and hassle and these are the lowest paid of them all.
They get around £4.77 an hour on average and unlike all the other staff, if the pub goes quite they are sent home after sometimes an hour’s work after they have given up their evening, so they never know how much pay they are going to get from one week to the next and they depend on the tips to top up their wages and get them through college.

So for instance, the cleaners do an hour or two in the morning compared to these front line staff that work non stop for around 6 hours a night and they all get the same tips around £2 per week each due to the amount of staff taking a share.

The staffs are now voting with their feet, several members of staff have left in the past few weeks due to these new rules, which hampers that personal service they give to the customers who get used to regular faces.

I choose what charities my money goes to and I would like to choose where and who my tip goes to. I will tip the bar staff and kitchen staff if I have had a good service from them and I used to.
People apply for the jobs based on what that job offers at the time, the cleaners and all the staff knew what they were getting when they applied for there jobs and so did these front line staff, they new part of their income included tips and budgeted for this, they did'nt know the goal posts were going to be moved.

Julie Davies

Nov 7th, 2008 - 12:44 PM

Re: The Otter and Tips

I agree with John Howard I'm afraid. This was there bonus, people have gone on strike all over the world when they get there perks or bonuses taken away. The cleaners and all the other staff could apply anytime for this front line work that is the hardest job in the pub, but will they, NO as they would'nt want the hassle.

Janet Bates

Nov 7th, 2008 - 9:28 PM

Re: The Otter and Tips

Surely the staff & management can see whats happening and act accordingly?Happy work force=happy customers i would have thought!!If staff are leaving,is it because of this or other issues?I will continue to tip good service,when i get it.

Robert Walker

Nov 8th, 2008 - 5:47 PM

Re: The Otter and Tips

I would suggest some of the views expressed in this thread are from those who have never worked in both a front of house environment, and a busy kitchen environment. I assure you, both have equal pressures and challenges, with the exception that the kitchen staff are often who everyone else vents on when things go wrong. I have worked in many pubs, and in fact run several, although I am now in retail management, and I can assure you that the management of these businesses can and will have no part in the division of tips, as is common company policy in most multiple pub chains. They are, as such powerless to change the way tips are divided and should not be held to account for any issues or grievance arising from such.
I would also point out that as is the culture in most service-oriented businesses nowadays, many staff are cross-skilled, and are encouraged to try out and learn different job roles if they wish. If your arguement is that chefs etc should have applied for front of house jobs if they want tips, then surely the reverse is true. If cheffing is so easy and well-payed, why don't the front of house staff apply for chef jobs?
In any business the end result is a team effort, and as such the entire team shares responsibility for ensuring the quality of that product, be it food, drink, clothes, toys, etc. Surely then the whole team should share the rewards of their efforts?
As for the idea of budgeting for tips in your income, well this goes against the basic work ethic most retail workers, in fact most workers around the world hold true - if you want more money, work harder!

I would hope that, in any pub or service establishment, you would continue to tip where you feel apropriate, as the whole team has worked hard to serve you.

Regards,
Robert

Terry Pritchard

Nov 9th, 2008 - 8:03 PM

Re: The Otter and Tips

We were thnking of booking 'xmas lunch at the Otter,but as the staff seem to all be leaving,will it still be open?
May be better to buy a turkey tomorrow ;)

john smith

Nov 10th, 2008 - 12:32 PM

Re: The Otter and Tips

I was in there yesterday for Sunday dinner and the food was fantastic, I had to wait a little longer than I would have liked but, and I believe it was one of the managers that served me, kept me informed on the wait on my food. I asked him about business and commented on the fact that the pub looked busy, his answer made sense, 'Come back in 2 hours and look again'. With the 'credit crunch' and the Bumblebee opening up the road trade had dropped and as like in any business the money available to spend on wages is dependant on the money a business takes in sales. 3 months ago there were over 50 staff!!! now there are closer to 30 and still there are not the hours to go round. If you want these staff to be able to earn a wage they can live on then they need people like us to go there and spend our money.

Anon.

Nov 10th, 2008 - 1:22 PM

Re: The Otter and Tips

I currently work in the Otter as a member of staff. As I have already read from the messages posted above all the riff-raff about 'if you want tips, work on the floor' and 'if you want it easy go work in the kitchen'.

At the end of the day, I see it like this:

1. Kitchen get paid more than the floor staff.
2. Floor staff get all the hassle from the customers AND the kitchen (Yes sounds like a team!).
3. As everybody very well knows that floor staff are not paid a great amount because of the fact they SHOULD make it up on tips.
4. This point is probably the MOST IMPORTANT one, when the customer gives a tip to the Waitress/Waitor, they are most of the time giving it for the quality of the service that they are getting. As I have experienced alot of the time. Customers have waited over an hour for food (should kitchen get tiped for that alone), or customers have even walked out because of the poor quality of the food after the table check has been performed and the replacment meal has been brought to them! BUT they have still come over to me and tip me for the quality of service I have given them, and then that has to go into the tip jar for the KITCHEN! Is that fair at all!

In fact id love to do a poll on the Newbridge online website and find out if the customer gives a tip for the quality of service, quality of the food, or both?

Good idea? I think so!

Newbridge-Online

Nov 10th, 2008 - 1:33 PM

Re: The Otter and Tips

Anon, We will sort out the poll you requested in the next few days.

Newbridge-Online team.

Janet Murphy

Nov 10th, 2008 - 1:54 PM

Re: The Otter and Tips

Well said Anon. The kitchen staff have left down the pub since the day it opened from running out of food, only having one good chief that can cook steaks (I have seen so many rows over steaks) to making people wait ages.

I find if you order a starter then your main course takes ages to arrive, once for us over 90 minutes. The contributor above mentions the drop in staffing and it shows, I have waited for ages at the bar for drinks to go with our meal, sometimes 25 minutes and I know the staff can serve you at your table but most of the time they cover so many sections these days they just haven’t got the time. Its no wonder the pub is going quiet at certain times; people are not stupid they know when it’s a bad time to get good service which is most of the time lately. As the staff have been cut back then so have the customers dwindled away as the service gets worse.

As for the tips we have had excellent service from the floor staff nearly all the time who are quite embarrassed to have to keep making excuses for the poor service that is not their fault. They are the ones I tip not anyone else, if the kitchen or bar staff did an excellent job then I would tip them via the bar and as for the cleaners they could do with one on duty all the time to pick up the food that is spilled and left all over the floor, (squashed chips in the carpet, yuk) why would I tip this service.

Like it was said above I don’t want anyone dictating where my tips go.

P.S. Robert Walker above says the management don’t get involved in tips side of things but it was them that instigated and implemented this change. You also say why don’t front line staff train for the better paid kitchen jobs, I think most of these are students studying for there chosen careers.

Bev Mason

Nov 11th, 2008 - 9:37 AM

Re: The Otter and Tips

Wouldn't it be fairer if the waiters/waitresses kept their tips,then gave a percentage of said tips to kitchen/bar staff?.My niece works in a high class restaurant in London and that's the policy there,and everyone seems happy with that arrangement.Technically,management are NOT supposed to get involved with tips,so why have these new ones seen fit to come in and interfere?.Surely they can see by the takings and staff morale the damage they have done?

Connor Davis

Nov 11th, 2008 - 10:20 AM

Re: The Otter and Tips

The standards have gone down,the Otter is only just over a year old,but is dirty and uncared for.We have had to complain about dirty cutlery and china on 3 occasions now!!Staff are being pushed to their limits and the whole place is suffering.I give it 6 mths, if that.Let them prove me wrong,but I will not be visiting for a while.

Jason Manning

Nov 11th, 2008 - 12:30 PM

Re: The Otter and Tips

Why don't the staff stand up for themselves?If management shouldn't have got involved with this issue,then they have nothing to fear!!The floor staff can decide what they want to do themselves,and no-one can argue with that.

Joe and Family

Nov 13th, 2008 - 9:02 PM

Re: The Otter and Tips

Its a great addition to Newbridge, somewhere to go for a chat, a meal and a drink in comfort. I do agree though, the kids doing the serving should have the tips and I understand they used to give a percentage over the bar for other staff before the change anyway so why change it.
The two new managers from Liverpool are better than the rest, they understand the valleys people a little more than all the past managers who were only used to city people. They need to relise the valleys is one big family, everyone knows everyone and we stick together when the chips are down.

It would be great now if we discussed the Goldmine and all the under age drinking and the problems that this causes our town. How about starting a new thread on this subject.

Rob Jones

Nov 17th, 2008 - 11:14 AM

Re: The Otter and Tips

I for one am disgusted about the fact that the customer doesnt get to decide where the tips are going!

As you can see at the moment on the websites poll the general public (majority vote) want the tips to go to 'the quality of service'.

I think something needs to be done about this, for I rarely visit the Otter anymore, and when I do, I certaintly dont TIP! I also know a few more customers that dont visit the Otter anymore because of the tip situation alone!

Sort it out!

Geoff Hicks & family.

Nov 17th, 2008 - 8:33 PM

Re: The Otter and Tips

We visited the Otter on Saturday night,and were served by a very pleasant young man.He went out of his way to be helpful,even though he was very busy with other tables to look after.When we went to pay the bill,my daughter reminded me the waiter wouldn't be getting all of the tip.We still tipped him,but felt he should have got it all,he certainly worked for it.Seems to us that the situation has got a bit out of hand,and the staff really need to do something about it.I'm of the opinion that those who wait on tables get the tips!!!.

Newbridge-Online

Nov 19th, 2008 - 9:49 AM

Trouble in the Otter Sunday 16th November

Anyone know anything about a group of boys who were in the Otter last Sunday evening and sat by the gaming machines at the end of the bar. They were rowdy, drinking and throwing food about and then run off towards Newbridge without paying a large bill. This happened early evening and anyone with any information or knew who they were please come forward, the police were involved.

There are photos and video which we are waiting on permission to publish.

Author	Comment
John Howard Sep 29, 08 - 1:02 PM	The Otter and Tips I for one won’t give any more tips at the Otter and the Bumble Bee. That policy of sharing the tips between everyone is ridiculous. We give tips to the person serving us because they give a good service and put up with all the main problems. If I wanted to give a tip to someone else in the pub for good service, I would, I don’t want the Otter dictating where my tip should go. Some of these kids are only on a pittance an hour and rely on the tips to get them through college week to week. I understand it is based on hours worked, so the staff on the front line and are part time on minimum wage ends up getting around £2-£3 per week and the full time staff some on £10-£15 per hour gets a lot more. I also understand the staff themselves voted this in which is a bit unfair way of doing it as the front line part time staff are totally out voted by the majority of the full time backroom staff, like cleaners, kitchen staff etc who all benefit. They don’t get the abuse and fall out and the pressure of running big areas on their own. If they want tips they need to work the floor and take some of the hassle and aggravation. Please someone let me know when this policy goes back to where it should by letting the customer decide who gets the tips!!!!!! Where are you now: Newbridge Where’s your favourite pub or club: The Otter What do you like or dislike about Newbridge: The lack of community policing
John Smith Nov 6th, 2008 - 4:10 PM	Re: The Otter and Tips The tip sharing at The Otter is a fairer way of splitting the tips. After the introduction of the National Minimum Wage the policy of 'topping' up wages with tips had become less important as the Government has ensured that all workers are paid a minimum and fair wage. As you stated with this way the kitchen staff, cleaners, bar and food runners now receive a share of the tips. Afterall without all these parts of the pub team the waiter/waitress would have no reason to have a job and indeed the pub wouldn't be open. Yes they provide you with good service, but the kitchen provides you with your food, the bar provides you with the drinks and the cleaners ensure you have a clean and pleasent environment to enjoy all these things so why not split the tips amongst the pubs staff?? I do not believe that anyone be they full or part time in any pub would be paid £10 - £15 a hour and if someone was then they would be few and far between. The highest rate of pay I have seen offered in a pub seeking new employees has never been more than £6/h with the kitchen staff generally getting a little more as the job involves a little more skill and knowledge ignoring the fact of working in a hot environment. So Mr Howard I hope my response to your comments has given you a different light in which to view The Otter and any business that has a similar tip policy. I for one will continue to eat and drink at the Otter as I find it a pleasent place to come and relax after work. Where are you now: Newbridge
John Howard Nov 7th, 2008 - 12:40 PM	Re: The Otter and Tips I see where you’re coming from and I do understand John, but the cleaners and kitchen staff are not on the front line and don’t get the stress, abuse and in the case of the Bumble Bee don’t get charged out of their pay if the customers walk out without paying. Some of the these front line staff have to cover two sections at a time, taking orders and delivering the meals, drinks and they are supposed to watch that nobody walks out without paying as well or they get the blame. No other member of staff gets this much stress and hassle and these are the lowest paid of them all. They get around £4.77 an hour on average and unlike all the other staff, if the pub goes quite they are sent home after sometimes an hour’s work after they have given up their evening, so they never know how much pay they are going to get from one week to the next and they depend on the tips to top up their wages and get them through college. So for instance, the cleaners do an hour or two in the morning compared to these front line staff that work non stop for around 6 hours a night and they all get the same tips around £2 per week each due to the amount of staff taking a share. The staffs are now voting with their feet, several members of staff have left in the past few weeks due to these new rules, which hampers that personal service they give to the customers who get used to regular faces. I choose what charities my money goes to and I would like to choose where and who my tip goes to. I will tip the bar staff and kitchen staff if I have had a good service from them and I used to. People apply for the jobs based on what that job offers at the time, the cleaners and all the staff knew what they were getting when they applied for there jobs and so did these front line staff, they new part of their income included tips and budgeted for this, they did'nt know the goal posts were going to be moved.
Julie Davies Nov 7th, 2008 - 12:44 PM	Re: The Otter and Tips I agree with John Howard I'm afraid. This was there bonus, people have gone on strike all over the world when they get there perks or bonuses taken away. The cleaners and all the other staff could apply anytime for this front line work that is the hardest job in the pub, but will they, NO as they would'nt want the hassle.
Janet Bates Nov 7th, 2008 - 9:28 PM	Re: The Otter and Tips Surely the staff & management can see whats happening and act accordingly?Happy work force=happy customers i would have thought!!If staff are leaving,is it because of this or other issues?I will continue to tip good service,when i get it.
Robert Walker Nov 8th, 2008 - 5:47 PM	Re: The Otter and Tips I would suggest some of the views expressed in this thread are from those who have never worked in both a front of house environment, and a busy kitchen environment. I assure you, both have equal pressures and challenges, with the exception that the kitchen staff are often who everyone else vents on when things go wrong. I have worked in many pubs, and in fact run several, although I am now in retail management, and I can assure you that the management of these businesses can and will have no part in the division of tips, as is common company policy in most multiple pub chains. They are, as such powerless to change the way tips are divided and should not be held to account for any issues or grievance arising from such. I would also point out that as is the culture in most service-oriented businesses nowadays, many staff are cross-skilled, and are encouraged to try out and learn different job roles if they wish. If your arguement is that chefs etc should have applied for front of house jobs if they want tips, then surely the reverse is true. If cheffing is so easy and well-payed, why don't the front of house staff apply for chef jobs? In any business the end result is a team effort, and as such the entire team shares responsibility for ensuring the quality of that product, be it food, drink, clothes, toys, etc. Surely then the whole team should share the rewards of their efforts? As for the idea of budgeting for tips in your income, well this goes against the basic work ethic most retail workers, in fact most workers around the world hold true - if you want more money, work harder! I would hope that, in any pub or service establishment, you would continue to tip where you feel apropriate, as the whole team has worked hard to serve you. Regards, Robert Where are you now: Newbridge
Terry Pritchard Nov 9th, 2008 - 8:03 PM	Re: The Otter and Tips We were thnking of booking 'xmas lunch at the Otter,but as the staff seem to all be leaving,will it still be open? May be better to buy a turkey tomorrow ;)
john smith Nov 10th, 2008 - 12:32 PM	Re: The Otter and Tips I was in there yesterday for Sunday dinner and the food was fantastic, I had to wait a little longer than I would have liked but, and I believe it was one of the managers that served me, kept me informed on the wait on my food. I asked him about business and commented on the fact that the pub looked busy, his answer made sense, 'Come back in 2 hours and look again'. With the 'credit crunch' and the Bumblebee opening up the road trade had dropped and as like in any business the money available to spend on wages is dependant on the money a business takes in sales. 3 months ago there were over 50 staff!!! now there are closer to 30 and still there are not the hours to go round. If you want these staff to be able to earn a wage they can live on then they need people like us to go there and spend our money.
Anon. Nov 10th, 2008 - 1:22 PM	Re: The Otter and Tips I currently work in the Otter as a member of staff. As I have already read from the messages posted above all the riff-raff about 'if you want tips, work on the floor' and 'if you want it easy go work in the kitchen'. At the end of the day, I see it like this: 1. Kitchen get paid more than the floor staff. 2. Floor staff get all the hassle from the customers AND the kitchen (Yes sounds like a team!). 3. As everybody very well knows that floor staff are not paid a great amount because of the fact they SHOULD make it up on tips. 4. This point is probably the MOST IMPORTANT one, when the customer gives a tip to the Waitress/Waitor, they are most of the time giving it for the quality of the service that they are getting. As I have experienced alot of the time. Customers have waited over an hour for food (should kitchen get tiped for that alone), or customers have even walked out because of the poor quality of the food after the table check has been performed and the replacment meal has been brought to them! BUT they have still come over to me and tip me for the quality of service I have given them, and then that has to go into the tip jar for the KITCHEN! Is that fair at all! In fact id love to do a poll on the Newbridge online website and find out if the customer gives a tip for the quality of service, quality of the food, or both? Good idea? I think so!
Newbridge-Online Nov 10th, 2008 - 1:33 PM	Re: The Otter and Tips Anon, We will sort out the poll you requested in the next few days. Newbridge-Online team.
Janet Murphy Nov 10th, 2008 - 1:54 PM	Re: The Otter and Tips Well said Anon. The kitchen staff have left down the pub since the day it opened from running out of food, only having one good chief that can cook steaks (I have seen so many rows over steaks) to making people wait ages. I find if you order a starter then your main course takes ages to arrive, once for us over 90 minutes. The contributor above mentions the drop in staffing and it shows, I have waited for ages at the bar for drinks to go with our meal, sometimes 25 minutes and I know the staff can serve you at your table but most of the time they cover so many sections these days they just haven’t got the time. Its no wonder the pub is going quiet at certain times; people are not stupid they know when it’s a bad time to get good service which is most of the time lately. As the staff have been cut back then so have the customers dwindled away as the service gets worse. As for the tips we have had excellent service from the floor staff nearly all the time who are quite embarrassed to have to keep making excuses for the poor service that is not their fault. They are the ones I tip not anyone else, if the kitchen or bar staff did an excellent job then I would tip them via the bar and as for the cleaners they could do with one on duty all the time to pick up the food that is spilled and left all over the floor, (squashed chips in the carpet, yuk) why would I tip this service. Like it was said above I don’t want anyone dictating where my tips go. P.S. Robert Walker above says the management don’t get involved in tips side of things but it was them that instigated and implemented this change. You also say why don’t front line staff train for the better paid kitchen jobs, I think most of these are students studying for there chosen careers.
Bev Mason Nov 11th, 2008 - 9:37 AM	Re: The Otter and Tips Wouldn't it be fairer if the waiters/waitresses kept their tips,then gave a percentage of said tips to kitchen/bar staff?.My niece works in a high class restaurant in London and that's the policy there,and everyone seems happy with that arrangement.Technically,management are NOT supposed to get involved with tips,so why have these new ones seen fit to come in and interfere?.Surely they can see by the takings and staff morale the damage they have done?
Connor Davis Nov 11th, 2008 - 10:20 AM	Re: The Otter and Tips The standards have gone down,the Otter is only just over a year old,but is dirty and uncared for.We have had to complain about dirty cutlery and china on 3 occasions now!!Staff are being pushed to their limits and the whole place is suffering.I give it 6 mths, if that.Let them prove me wrong,but I will not be visiting for a while.
Jason Manning Nov 11th, 2008 - 12:30 PM	Re: The Otter and Tips Why don't the staff stand up for themselves?If management shouldn't have got involved with this issue,then they have nothing to fear!!The floor staff can decide what they want to do themselves,and no-one can argue with that.
Joe and Family Nov 13th, 2008 - 9:02 PM	Re: The Otter and Tips Its a great addition to Newbridge, somewhere to go for a chat, a meal and a drink in comfort. I do agree though, the kids doing the serving should have the tips and I understand they used to give a percentage over the bar for other staff before the change anyway so why change it. The two new managers from Liverpool are better than the rest, they understand the valleys people a little more than all the past managers who were only used to city people. They need to relise the valleys is one big family, everyone knows everyone and we stick together when the chips are down. It would be great now if we discussed the Goldmine and all the under age drinking and the problems that this causes our town. How about starting a new thread on this subject.
Rob Jones Nov 17th, 2008 - 11:14 AM	Re: The Otter and Tips I for one am disgusted about the fact that the customer doesnt get to decide where the tips are going! As you can see at the moment on the websites poll the general public (majority vote) want the tips to go to 'the quality of service'. I think something needs to be done about this, for I rarely visit the Otter anymore, and when I do, I certaintly dont TIP! I also know a few more customers that dont visit the Otter anymore because of the tip situation alone! Sort it out!
Geoff Hicks & family. Nov 17th, 2008 - 8:33 PM	Re: The Otter and Tips We visited the Otter on Saturday night,and were served by a very pleasant young man.He went out of his way to be helpful,even though he was very busy with other tables to look after.When we went to pay the bill,my daughter reminded me the waiter wouldn't be getting all of the tip.We still tipped him,but felt he should have got it all,he certainly worked for it.Seems to us that the situation has got a bit out of hand,and the staff really need to do something about it.I'm of the opinion that those who wait on tables get the tips!!!.
Newbridge-Online Nov 19th, 2008 - 9:49 AM	Trouble in the Otter Sunday 16th November Anyone know anything about a group of boys who were in the Otter last Sunday evening and sat by the gaming machines at the end of the bar. They were rowdy, drinking and throwing food about and then run off towards Newbridge without paying a large bill. This happened early evening and anyone with any information or knew who they were please come forward, the police were involved. There are photos and video which we are waiting on permission to publish.